Witnessing to Pastor Pragmatic

And my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith should not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God. 1Cor2:4-5

For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 1Cor1:21

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. Rom.1:16

Did some shopping errands today. Some highlights of my day:
1. While choosing a red onion in the produce section, the lady next to me was picking the skins off and bagging them. She said, ” I will boil these and this will make the best red dye for my eggs!” I told her I was making salad.
2. While driving to the farmer’s market, i saw at the “Positive Place on the Peninsula” Church that they were setting up a circus for the kids in the parking lot.
3. While walking down the avenue, the Easter Bunny live and in costume, was delighting the shoppers.

4. While walking back to my car in the KMart parking lot, I bumped into “Pastor B—“, who was putting glossy invitations to his Church, on all the cars, including mine. (“Join us for our Easter Celebration Service! Special candy hunt for the kids!” The card had brightly colored eggs in grass.) So the first thing he asks me is if I have all my candy, baskets and eggs ready for my Easter egg hunt. I sheepishly told him that I’m a Christian who has decided to drop all the pagan stuff. I reminded him that Jesus celebrated Passover, and the early Christians, up until the time that the Roman and Babylonian “Ishtar” paganism was combined with Christianity. He then said that he likes to “use” those things to “draw” people in because they are fun and will get people interested. I told him that I believe it is better to forsake the “pragmatism” and just trust God to use the means He has established. He then said, “How then are we going to save people?” I told him we don’t, that people try by the strength of man to make things happen through gimmicks and pragmatism, when we are to do what God told us to do and trust Him to do it by His power. I told him I believe the verse “it pleased God by the foolishness of the gospel preached…” He said, “Yeah, so where do you preach?” (He mocked street preaching and witnessing…) “How many people have YOU led to Christ then?” With sober fear of God and trembling in my heart, I answered nothing other than, “Well I guess we will find out on judgment day.” He then went on to defend his pragmatic use of “whatever works” culturally relevant methodology (in evangelism), and I again testified of trust in the power of the Spirit of God, and shared the verse “I am not ashamed of the gospel for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.”

He then said to me


21 thoughts on “Witnessing to Pastor Pragmatic

  1. Loretta, first off I will like to give honor to the Lord who gives wisdom to all men liberally (those who ask in faith). I want to commend your boldness for sticking to the truth instead of smiling and nodding your head when the pastor and the woman shopping for dye conversed with you. This Sunday (tomorrow) I will be going to the COGIC church i attended to tell the pastor I no longer want to be a member. I have prayed about this and I believe what I am doing is right. Many people don’t understand. I prefer to tell him rather than just “dropping” out as they would call it. Like I have stated before I have never felt so liberated but with this liberation has come a burden of scrutiny (which I am ok with) I have prayed to God that he makes me the low of lows, humbling my spirit so the truth will manifest through me. I too have seen people getting ready for Easter and their are tons of people that have this “drawing people to Christ through the fun system of Easter and Christmas.” (especially the kids) and they are willing to compromise to do it. I agree and also stated that if you go by what the Lord has told us to do for means of evagelism it will be more effective. I was thinking in the car one day and I said to myself, self, why is it you dont see people ministring and evangelizing except mainly near the Easter and Christmas season? Still don’t have the answer but thats neither here nor there. Loretta I just thank God for the true believers, in between times of reading my bible I read your blog and I am encouraged. Fight the good fight, and take joy in the tribulations you endure. Pray for me..

    Your brother in Christ

  2. Hello. It’s good to be back in the neighborhood. (I’ve been away for a while) The question that Pastor B asked you (Hows that workin for ya) is very reflective of the prevailing mindset. It’s the old “be like the world to win the world” mindset and it’s dangerous. It’s cousin to another quote that I’ve heard often in the past; “don’t be so heavenly minded that you’re of no earthy good.” Somehow, the scriptural pattern of coming out from among them and being separate has been largely lost today. Yet that is the only way to know both the peace of God that passes understanding, and the power of God to move mountains.

    It’s good to hear from you. Lord willing, I’ll begin checking in more fequently. Blessings always in Jesus name.

  3. Hey sister, I thought this would interest you…….

    Apr 8, 2012 02:15 PM CDT

    Christians worldwide celebrate Easter
    By the CNN Wire Staff

    (CNN) — Pope Benedict XVI on Sunday called for an end to violence in Syria, as well as a renewed peace effort in the Middle East, in his annual Easter Mass message from the Vatican as Christians worldwide marked the holiday.

    “May the risen Christ grant hope to the Middle East and enable all the ethnic, cultural and religious groups in that region to work together to advance the common good and respect for human rights,” the pope said in his “Urbi et Orbi” (“To the City and to the World”) message in St. Peter’s Square.

    “Particularly in Syria, may there be an end to bloodshed and an immediate commitment to the path of respect, dialogue and reconciliation, as called for by the international community, he said. “May the many refugees from that country who are in need of humanitarian assistance find the acceptance and solidarity capable of relieving their dreadful sufferings.”

    The Iraqi people, he said, should be encouraged to “spare no effort in pursuing the path of stability and development. In the Holy Land, may Israelis and Palestinians courageously take up anew the peace process.”

    And the pope asked that “the risen Jesus comfort the suffering populations of the Horn of Africa and favor their reconciliation,” including Sudan and South Sudan, “and grant their inhabitants the power of forgiveness. In Mali, now experiencing delicate political developments, may the glorious Christ grant peace and stability. To Nigeria, which in recent times has experienced savage terrorist attacks, may the joy of Easter grant the strength needed to take up anew the building of a society which is peaceful and respectful of the religious freedom of all its citizens.”

    Christians have previously been the targets of violence in Nigeria, most notably on Christmas Day, when a string of bombs struck churches in several cities. A bombing Sunday in the northern city of Kaduna killed 25 people and wounded another 13, emergency management agency spokesman Abubakar Zakari said. While the blast was near a Christian church where services were taking place, the target was not immediately clear.

    Thankfully, thousands of Easter services — from the annual sunrise service at Arlington National Cemetery outside Washington, D.C., to throngs of worshipers attending Mass in the Philippines — were far more peaceful, a time for both reflection and celebration.

    In Georgetown, Texas, that included cheers for Tim Tebow, who has become known as much for his religious devotion as for his exploits on the football field.

    The quarterback took the stage alongside Celebration Church senior pastor Joe Champion to talk about how his faith brings him peace, joy, stability and a sense of purpose even at times of what might seem like intense turmoil and scrutiny. Tebow has been on a roller coaster in the last year with his play and public displays of faith, and more recently with his trade from the Denver Broncos to the New York Jets.

    “Whatever happens in life — good or bad, whether you’re the hero or the goat, whether you like it or not — you know that someone has a plan for your life, and it’s a special plan,” Tebow told the congregation, about his belief that his future is in God’s hands. “When you trust that and you have hope in that, then you have peace in all decisions and everything you do. And it brings a lot of joy to your life.”

    For Christians in countries thrown into tumult by the Arab Spring revolutions, some say Easter celebrations could prove dangerous.

    In the past, Syrian Christians “have had great outpouring of piety in the public squares on Easter,” said Nina Shea, director of the Center for Religious Freedom at the Hudson Institute in Washington. “This time, I suspect it is going to be vastly different. They are fearful.”

    Though the geopolitical makeup of each Arab Spring country is different, Shea and other religious freedom scholars say that a pious holiday like Easter presents an opportunity for anti-Christian groups to seek out worshippers.

    Religious holidays have long been a venue for terrorist attacks against all religious groups in the Middle East and North Africa. These holidays provide not only a meaningful day to make a statement but also see large concentrations of worshippers in one area.

    “Christ is hope and comfort in a particular way for those Christian communities suffering most for their faith on account of discrimination and persecution,” the pope said Sunday. “And he is present as a force of hope through his church, which is close to all human situations of suffering and injustice.”

    Last Easter, Benedict called for peace amid ongoing conflicts in Africa and the Middle East and mentioned the plight of those in Japan recovering from the devastating earthquake and tsunami.

  4. “For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance……..and you became followers of us and the LORD, having received the Word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Spirit…..for from you the Word of the LORD has sounded forth…..your faith toward God has gone out…..” 1 Thess 1:5-8

    “For they themselves declare concerning us what manner of entry we had to you, and how you turned to God from idols [holy days, feasts, pagan rituals, self, etc, etc, etc,] to serve the LIVING TRUE GOD, and to wait for His Son…..” 1 Thess 1:9-10

    “For you yourselves know, brethren, that our coming to you was not in vain. But even[a] after we had suffered before and were spitefully treated at Philippi, as you know, we were bold in our God to speak to you the gospel of God in much conflict. For our exhortation did not come from error or uncleanness, nor was it in deceit. But as we have been approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel, even so we speak, not as pleasing men, but God who tests our hearts. 5 For neither at any time did we use flattering words, as you know, nor a cloak for covetousness—God is witness. 6 Nor did we seek glory from men, either from you or from others………” 2 Thess 2:1-6

    Amen Sister! Unfortunately the modern-day “churchianity” and it’s “pastors”, “spiritual leadership”, “clergy” etc, and “ministerial organizations” are apostate and of the same spirit and same accord as of the sons of Eli, Caiaphas, etc.

    WHO needs “easter” (an ancient pagan festival to a false goddess Ishtar) to worship the King of all kings who died and rose again for our justification? Good Friday? Christmas? Huhhhh? Those who truly know the LORD have firstly repented – turned their lives over to Him completely. Then, they worship Jesus “daily” in spirit and in truth (Luke 9:23-24; John 4:23-24). The true justified believer doesn’t need a so-called special holiday to give God lip service by giving Him a token day of supposed “worship.” That is for the heathen who wish to temporarily soothe their conscience for a day, etc. But Jesus says “Ye must be born again.” (John 3:3, 7)

    Continue in His grace sister, for the righteous are as bold as a lion

  5. @ InChristalone;
    There are many who have walked this before you, and He is all you need! He puts us in His Ekklesia and that body of living stones was, is and will always be more then overcomers, as the gates of hell have not and will not prevail against His bride, the body of saints He alone builds. By now you realize that you came as close as you can to casting pearls before swine if you gave that preacher any good byes! Let the shunning begin! For he will damn you with fained praise for that is what they do. Then the she/he is hurt, struggling, bitter, backslidden, labels will appear, as Diotrephes in him seeks to cut you off from any fellowship. But know this, we the elect and hidden in Him are here for you!

  6. I don’t know you to say anything “sheepishly” so I will conclude you meant you were speaking as a sheep of the great Shepherd. Ahaaa! Yyyesss!!

    The man is relying on earthly man-made gimmicks in order to get people “saved” ? He couldn’t save anyone if he tried. Nobody but God has that power to regenerate a person’s heart from stone to flesh, and that thru the preaching of THE GOSPEL in Spirit and in truth.

    When I am challenged by someone (usually a “Christian”) asking “So how many people have you led to Christ?”, I use Tony Miano’s answer: “All of them.” In our witness through the gospel of Jesus Christ, we introduce people to the God of the Bible. We have done our job. What God does with them from there on in is His business.

    “What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses,

    ‘I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.’ It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.” – Romans 9:14-16

    The man has a “tude” and a negative one with that. His mocking and facetious comments reveal the true state of His heart.

    “But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man ‘unclean.'” – Matthew 15:18

    It is obvious he is in dire need of repentance and faith in Christ alone not only for his salvation but for his approach to properly seeking and saving that which is lost.

    You were honest with him, uncompromisingly blunt, generous and, of course, bang on! Well done, sister.

  7. Thanks everybody for your fellowship and kind encouragement….. haha I hope to encourage you and here you all are , encouraging me! Thank you all for the very edifying responses, brothers. love, Loretta
    ps, hey Timbob! It’s been a minute! We must catch up old friend….. !

  8. This is for Mickey Merrie, I was not able to say my goodbyes, I was persuaded to stay quiet and just leave peacefully. That is what I was going to do, to my surprise Missionary and Deacon so and so came to my house. Now, I know the pastor of that church has this whole “tell me everything” mind set, so I’m sure they will tell him or give their opinion to what we discussed. I shared something’s with them concerning the issue ( which to me isn’t a issue at all). I told them I believe the Lord is calling me out of “church” I began to explain the institutional side of the church. Deacon expressed that God dont tell people that. They made some subtle suggestion referring to Satan (like God) speaks to people. Over all, i feel the need to speak to the pastor and I must do so immediately, I’m aware they won’t understand. Some have already written me off as backslidden along with other names. This is fine. I told them both that my prayer is that if I am wrong, and deceived that the Lord will reveal it to me so I can repent, I later posed the question in my head, not asking it aloud….”what if I am not wrong, where would you both stand in this matter?” they wanted to bring my late grandmother in the subject as far as what she would want me to be in church. I told them, I want God for my self not because grandma told me I should have him. They stressed the fact that all they want is for me to go to a bible base church… It’s kind of hard to find one here for the fact all churches I know of believe in TiTHeS…..the deacon told me that I won’t find anything better as far as doctrine like COGIC..( thats church of god in Christ)…. I asked them about a teaching that the pastor taught me about when i declared to him that i wanted to minister the word…(some months, almost a year ago) he told me gifts and callings are without repentance….now, I know this referes to SALVATION for Israel, but they love to look at this as spiritual gifts.. So basically what they believe is that you can be a sinner and God still give you a spiritual gift, but from my knowledge you can’t have a spiritual gift if you are not born of God (born again)…. The deacon used Whitney Houston and her beautiful voice for an example………. So I’m thinking ooooooook.. To make things short I believe they will report everything I shared with them along with their opinions to the pastor and then the pastor will express himself over the pulpit… I feel the need to speak the truth to him with love and meekness,..God be the Glory….I wanted to ask them where in the bible does it say GO TO CHURCH, I already know the possible verse they would have used… I honestly feel like in the middle of something I don’t know what to do… I won’t to do things properly, but I know of no one in my surrounding that has stop going to this building because of its nonsense… I have prayed and prayed and I am pleased with my sufferings… I give glory to God … But I have never gone through this so it kind of hard..to make things short… I will call him today. Pray for me.

    A brother in Christ

  9. We ache for you, brother! At the same time we rejoice for you! There is nobody at this site, to my knowlege, that wouldn’t attend a godly fellowship of believers, served by a godly undershepherd. The fact is, none of us can find one! We aren’t “lone ranger” saints, we just understand that the religious system “plays the harlot with the world,” while expecting that the Husband will simply forgive. The ones who “forsake the fellowshipping” are the ones who refuse the “one anothering!” Further, “They went out from” the gospel Jesus gave us through the Apostles, and by doing so prove they are not of the Lord, and thus “not of us!”
    We, being His sheep in no way will follow another “shepherd,” for we know our Shepherd’s Voice!”
    I am in Northwestern Pa. and you have my email address from above, so feel free to contact me. Plus our dear sister Loretta is available as well, along with many others! You are no orphan brother, as the Holy Spirit will do His Work in you as you read the Word in context. Your pastor has a vested interest in NOT SEEING THE TRUTH! Check out also Chip Brogdan at http://www.theschoolofchrist.org as he is an AG pastor who heard the Lord’s call and left the system. You will find a wealth of study there as Chip says that spiritually inmature saints are the ones who stay in the system as they need a place to get their dirty diapers changed regularly! LOL
    My wife and I are 5+ years out, and wouldn’t trade a minute of walking with Him, for any of the things we did in His Name back in the system!…And believe you me, we had the trophey christian life there, that so many think they need to aspire to! Count all your past religious learning as “DUNG” like paul, and let the Holy Spirit build you up from the Firm Foundation of Christ Jesus!!!
    Amen saints?

  10. I started this site with a couple of friends, to help and encourage saints who are dealing with this very situation. It has many wonderful articles (check the “links”), devotionals, videos, testimonies….. very helful for those processing the “hurt and confusion”, who are De-Churching, who are following the voice of the Shepherd……… hope it is a help and blessing you you…..

  11. lol….whenever I am asked that question, “how many people have “you” led to Christ”, I always say, “everyone I ever witnessed to”. Of course you get that deer in the headlights look. Then I tell them, “When I witness to people, I always lead them to Christ through the law and gospel. In fact, that’s all I can do. God saves people; not me.”

    Keep up the good work in the Lord!!


  12. Blessings to you all. The friendship with the world is emnity to God is forgotten in the institutional religion. Embracing pagan traditions to bring in numbers is not relying on God’s strength, who draws all to Christ in His time. Encouraging to hear others who are being called to put aside the traditions of men and follow Christ. Funny, passover was friday evening to saturday evening putting the resurection 3 days and nights later,

  13. Blessings to all. Glad to hear God is calling His without gimmics and traditions of men. Funny, passover this year was friday evening to saturday evening, 3 days and nights in the grave doesn’t fit sunday too well but what is most important. Thanks Loretta!

  14. Didn’t see this before until some other posts, but the “pastors” response is a typical one we’ve all provided. The harlot church, better yet described as the false church incubates and breeds such contempt for Christ, being the Way/Truth/Life. Said false church ingrains deeply the teaching that being non-confrontational & nice is the true Jesus or christian. But as we see grom your experience,

  15. Didn’t see this before until some other posts, but the “pastors” response is a typical one we’ve all provided. The harlot church, better yet described as the false church incubates and breeds such contempt for Christ, being the Way/Truth/Life. Said false church ingrains deeply the teaching that being non-confrontational & nice is the true Jesus or christian. But as we see from your experience, exposing lies and speaking the truth boldly through love is considered
    unloving, unlearned and disrespectful. But what the ffalse church and its minions fail to ever see is that they care more about people-pleasing than His Truth through love. Spiritual cowardice masked by a false idea of love. And I commend you sister, as well as all here, for speaking bodly the truth im love. For Ephesians 6:19-20 says it clearly “that i may open my mouth boldy to make known the mystery of the gospel
    ………that i may speak boldly as i ought to speak.”Boldness speaks loud and clear as we proclaim His Truth and good news. And contrary to the false church, the Truth is very offensive….especially for a life refusing to lay down and die daily

  16. Hello saints, I wanted to comment on my experience with “bold” “pastors” from the charismatic Pentecostal COGIC movement and what I have notice. They mistake speaking boldly with being Rude and puffed up. ..and overall missing the mark preaching repentance ,..but I consider boldness to equate being courageous ( standing up for something…THE TRUTH, knowing that their could possibly be a death sentence afterwards….you see the darts and swords in the people’s hands but yet u stand up and proclaim the truth with meekness)……
    Glory to God for the awakening of his Bride!

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